Muddy Waters

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Posts by Muddy Waters

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  44

  Letter from elders to WT about Jonathan Kendrick and the WT response

  by wolfman85 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

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  i don't know if these letters were posted here before , so i'm sorry if is something that all of you have seen already..

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  Muddy Waters

  In the book, Crisis of Conscience, by Ray Franz, he produces letters from the Society also without letterhead, the reason being that they are copies, by way of copy paper.... what the heck is that copy paper called... it's sort of bluey-purple and you put it in between two sheets of paper. These letters are dated from 1993, when the society could still have been using this (very now outdated) mode of copying. Even the type font suggests the use of a typewriter. (AHA! The word just came to me -- CARBON PAPER!) You younger ones here may not know what carbon paper is, but it was a very common way of making paper copies when one was typing a letter.
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  81

  Help! I'm having serious thoughts about going back

  by lola28 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello old friends, i've been thinking about going back and need you all to give me your thoughts on it.. the last year has been a horribe one for me, in the span of less than a year the following things have happened to me:.

  lost my mom to cancergot hit by a carhad a professional set back that will cost over 600k to resolveended a three and a half year relationshipit just feels like every time i think things are going to get better something else hits me and knocks me down, a small part of me wonders wether i brought all these things on myself because i left the organization (yes i know how silly that sounds) and i have given serious thought about going back.

  i need you guys to talk me out of it!.

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  Muddy Waters

  You know what... we (we as in human beings) tend to magnify the bad stuff that happens in our life more than the good stuff.
  
  Yes, some really bad stuff has happened to you. BUT think about this: when you were hit by a car, you weren't killed thankfully. You probably had wonderful people at the hospital who did their best to help you and put you back together in whatever physical way you needed.

  You lost your mom to cancer, but that would have happened regardless of being in the org or not.
  
  You say there's support at the hall, and yes that's true ONLY if you're an active JW. Their support is conditional. Have you any non-JW or ex-JW friends who have supported or helped you through the loss of your mom?

  Business is really bad for a lot of people right now, in the org or not, because the economy is so messed up right now. There are a lot of people hurting. So this can happen whether you are in the org or not.

  Ask yourself: What good things have happened to you since you left? Make another list. Think on those things.

  When I stopped going to meetings and found out "the truth about the truth" I had tons of things happen in my life as well. Very negative things. I also thought that maybe it was because I left the org. (Funny how "they" can make you think that way). I read Steve Hassan's books (one is called, Combatting Cult Mind Control, which is an absolutely excellent resource! Almost vital reading for any ex-JW!!) You start to see how you "filter" everything and every event through your past "programming", and also because we've been conditioned that way at meetings. We always hear from the platform about people who leave and how messed up their lives became.

  Well, think about this: how many people still "in" have messed up lives? How many JWs still contend with troubles and financial difficulties and sickness and cancer and illness and family break-ups and divorces and any number of other bad things?

  When you say you have "support" from JWs, just what kind of support do you mean? Will they help you financially? Will they search for a job for you, will they help you with home repairs or shopping or gardening or housework? (okay, a very few might. But this is the exception, not the rule!) Most JWs "help" or "support" you with WORDS. Words, words, words. And yes, sisters are good for giving hugs with those words. The offer a sympathetic ear, but they really don't want to hear too much about your troubles and trials BECAUSE THEY'RE DEALING WITH THEIR OWN TROUBLES AND TRIALS. Most JWs are quick with sympathy, quick with words, but slow on practical help. And what are their solutions for all your trials and troubles?? FIELD SERVICE and MEETING ATTENDANCE. And if that doesn't seem to be helping, then DO MORE field service and meeting attendance and study and prayer. Must do more, more, more. And when you finally exhaust yourself and burn out and wonder how serving the needs of a publishing corporation can grant you any sort of relief from your troubles, you will be right back where you are now.
  
  Sorry if I'm being depressing. Just trying to help you look at the situation objectively.
  
  Love, Muddy
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  33

  Sparlock: The Sociology of the former Jehovah’s Witness community

  by Las Malvinas son Argentinas in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thewatchtower bible and tract society has unwittingly unleashed quite a viral sensation within the ranks of its former members.

  to summarise what has happened so far:- become jehovahs friend dvd is released.

  it is an animated feature aimed at children with modern computerised graphics.- the antagonist of the relatively brief cartoon is a self-described warrior wizard by the name of sparlock which was obtained by caleb, the young subject of this material.- the unnamed mother in this dvd guilt-trips young caleb into disposing of his sparlock toy.- the video goes viral within the ex-jw community, with youtube videos being posted of the video.

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  Muddy Waters

  This discussion is awesome! Love the comments and insights and sociological and psychological perspectives of what happens when one is an active JW.
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  322

  My son was murdered today

  by truman in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been on this site daily, almost from its beginning, since i left the jws in 2001, but i have been more of a reader than a poster, as you can see from my post count.

  i know few here know me, although i know many of you through reading your posts.

  maybe it is not right to ask for support, when i generally stay quietly in the background of this forum, but i want only to speak a human misery of the deepest kind.

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  Muddy Waters

  I cannot imagine the pain of your grief right now.... so very sorry that this has happened.
  It sounds like your son was a reasonable and intelligent young man that you can feel very proud of...
  
  Although I do not believe that the organization is the "truth" anymore, I still hold that the Bible is God's word and that there is hope and comfort to be found in his words to us. Not sure if you believe that, but hope you may find comfort in whatever ways you need... through family, friends, websites such as this.... there will be difficult days ahead and there is no easy way to deal with the loss of a child..... again, so very sorry. Please know that you are not alone and you do not have to face this alone.

  
  

  Much love, Muddy
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  48

  Matrix moment - what was it and when did you share it?

  by MMXIV in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for those of you who had a moment like that from the matrix when you realised what you'd believed was fundamentally flawed or a lie - what caused that defining moment and how long was it before you could share your thoughts?.

  mmxiv.

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  Muddy Waters

  I had a few niggling doubts, but had always suppressed them. You know, didn't want to be "presumptuous", didn't want to be questioning, didn't want to show "independent thinking" or disloyalty. The generation thing bothered me, the blood fraction thing bothered me IMMENSELY (made NO SENSE to me!)..... Jesus only being mediator for the 144,000 bothered me.... all these things I suppressed because of course the GB were the only ones who could ever enlighten us.
  
  But my "matrix moment" came when I was going to give my sweet precious little grandbabies the Bible Story book. I started looking through the book and saw it through their little eyes. (Why I never saw this when my own children were little I'll never know!)
  
  "My Book of Bible Stories" is a HORROR SHOW. It is frightening, scary, terrible. The images are way too graphic for small children who can't read, thus all our little children have to go on are the pictures. Terrible and terrifying pictures. If you actually go through this book and COUNT how many pictures show violence, blood, people crying, looking angry, being hurt, being sad, being killed, being tormented in some way... it's almost the WHOLE BOOK. **UNBELIEVABLE** (Go ahead! Count them!! It's totally eye-opening.)

  As I was looking through the book, becoming more and more alarmed at the images, I realized this book was written for children by MEN WHO NEVER EVEN HAD CHILDREN!!!(Excuse all my caps.... yes, I feel like screeching about it).

  When my faith in the GB came into question, the whole structure started to crumble.
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  36

  Sisters told they strictly can't wear slacks to Meetings to keep them submissive! Why?

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  yes slacks and pants on women are evil.....the first step to wanting to be elders or even worse lesbians!

  so the watchtower in it's wisdom put a strict bad on women wearing pants at meetings, even in siberia or alaska where it is freezing cold....i qoute the governing body who said: "we need to show these sisters who wears the pants in our congregations...literally.".

  in the 70's when it was all the rage, my mum tried wearing slacks to the hall....."go and get changed" said the sister who studied with her.

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  Muddy Waters

  I remember one time I injured my foot and couldn't wear my dress shoes, so wore slippers to the meeting. They weren't obvious, fluffy-bunny slippers (though now I wish they were!), they were like a moccasin type of slipper. I explained to an elder why I was wearing them, but the next week this very same elder gave a talk on local needs about dress and grooming and how we should ALWAYS dress appropriately for the meetings.... and he specifically mentioned not wearing slippers as this would not bring honor to Jehovah.
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  56

  5/15 WT - WT Society Displays Condescending Attitude towards Marriage

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as most of us know the wt society has always claimed that it's dissapproved in god's sight to marry a non-jw .

  although they've never made it a disfellowshipping offense, any jw who marries outside the jw organization is looked at as " weak " or lacking " spirituality " and loses certain alleged " privileges " in the congregations.

  they use scriptures in the old testament as support for this.

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  Muddy Waters

  OOPS -- I'm sorry... totally wrong about Jeremiah. I don't know what I'm thinking of or trying to remember.... it wasn't Jeremiah. I thought maybe Ezekiel, but he was just told by Jehovah not to mourn the death of his wife....
  
  So please ignore my earlier comment everybody.... somewhere I've got a screw loose or thinking of something that may (or may not) exist.....
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  56

  5/15 WT - WT Society Displays Condescending Attitude towards Marriage

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as most of us know the wt society has always claimed that it's dissapproved in god's sight to marry a non-jw .

  although they've never made it a disfellowshipping offense, any jw who marries outside the jw organization is looked at as " weak " or lacking " spirituality " and loses certain alleged " privileges " in the congregations.

  they use scriptures in the old testament as support for this.

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  Muddy Waters

  Wasn't it Jeremiah who was supposed to take a wife from among the nations (to represent Israel's unfaithfulness or something)...? He was commanded directly by Jehovah to take a wife who wasn't a worshipper of Jehovah. Just have to figure out where that scripture is.... Jeremiah somewhere....
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  127

  Be Honest---Describe your most prevalent feeling as a witness in ONE WORD!

  by MsGrowingGirl20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  lets's go!!.

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  suffocating.

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  Muddy Waters

  Inadequate.
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  183

  How many of you knew about the"Jesus is not your Mediator" teaching when you were JWs??

  by Lady Liberty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi everyone.... just curious how many of you knew when you were active, about the societys official teaching regarding jesus the mediator.

  i was floored to find in my research, that they teach jesus is the mediator for the 144,000 only.

  and it is only by our association with them that we might have salvation.. i don't know about you guys but i was blown away when i learned they taught this.

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  Muddy Waters

  In view of the upcoming "Memorial season" (April 5, 2012), thought this might be an interesting thread to bump up ....